, part of the HBR Podcast network. I’m a longtime executive coach who works with highly successful leaders who’ve hit a bump in the road. My job is to help them get over that bump by clarifying their goals and figuring out a way to reach them so that, hopefully, they can lead with a little more ease. I typically work with clients over the course of several months, but on this show we have a one-time coaching meeting focusing on a specific leadership challenge they’re facing.
MURIEL WILKINS: Sophie reached the height of her career that many don’t achieve, but now she finds herself in a role that she didn’t intend to have forever and wondering about how to get back to where she wants to be while also balancing the needs of the company.
MURIEL WILKINS: When you’re having those conversations, give me a little insight. What do they sound like? Are you saying, “Hey, I can do more?” Are you saying, “Hey, here’s what I can do. Here’s some ideas about what I could do”? Are you pitching something to them, or are you asking them?MURIEL WILKINS: Don’t tell me I’m right. I didn’t say anything. I asked you a question.
MURIEL WILKINS: But they’re already winning. Can we just assert that? They’re already winning by you doing a fantastic job that it sounds like you’re doing.MURIEL WILKINS: Nobody’s telling you to go anywhere. They’re saying, “No, we want to keep you here. We hear you, but you’re adding value here. Please, please stay.” So they’re already winning.
MURIEL WILKINS: Okay, replace the person even if they were still there, or replace the person if they left? MURIEL WILKINS: But then, if you’re playing it out like chess moves, then you’re not staying aligned to what you said, your goal is in all this is to make it win-win.MURIEL WILKINS: If you’re playing it out like chess moves, you’re assuming there’s a win-lose and that one party comes out on top. So, you have to decide, are you playing this out as a chess game or, as one of my dear friends once said, “There is no win-win.” He said, “There’s win some, win some.
MURIEL WILKINS: There’s this question of, at what point does the loyalty to the company override the loyalty to yourself? And I don’t know what that is. For some people, that’s every single day. For others, it’s at the point of, I need to actually leave and pursue my own role somewhere else.
MURIEL WILKINS: So, let’s just take a step back for a second. Because what I asked you is, help me understand what it is that you want but not in the form of a finance role. What you went back to is, this is what a finance role gives me.MURIEL WILKINS: So, there’s a level of attachment to “finance role equals happiness” that I would like for you to put aside for a minute. I’m sure it does equal ecstasy for you.
SOPHIE: I do think I care about making it difficult for them, but I also think the second point is correct. I am not feeling comfortable with that.MURIEL WILKINS: Yeah, so I think what you lead with is how it’s going to be received, and so it’s not an, “Oh, they don’t feel uncomfortable.” You’re the one who feels uncomfortable. If you lead with discomfort, as though this is scary, as though this is difficult, and this is filled with angst, that’s how it’s going to be received.